interdictor: Hmmm

interdictor (

interdictor) wrote,
@ 2007-06-05 03:04:00

Hmmm

Twice the murder rate of Oakland? That's not even something to be disgusted by anymore. That's... just plain impressive. That's almost something to be celebrated.

Anyway, does anyone have any theory which can explain these murder rates?

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(Post a new comment)

	cluebyfour 2007-06-05 07:41 am UTC (link)
	does anyone have any theory which can explain these murder rates? The cops never returned any of the guns they seized post-Katrina? (Reply to this) (Thread)

(Reply from suspended user)

no_brakes23
2007-06-05 07:58 am UTC (link)

Well I keep hearing on NPR that it is a combination of drug dealers having made contact with their Houston suppliers two levels up during the evac, and cutting out the middle men to absorb more profit, and young thugs who were previously kept in line, (Relatively speaking,) by mammy and pappy have returned to Nawlins sans the grandparents/parents. No adults or veteranos to keep them in check means they go farther. Beefs lead to murder more easily.

Also the murders have spike, and the population has decreased, according to the graph, so that skews the numbers as well.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	emesebovyr 2008-07-16 02:10 am UTC (link)
	As they neared their house in Metairie, Guste recounted, two men waving guns began to tailgate them. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(Reply from suspended user)

	octal 2007-06-05 08:02 am UTC (link)
	They breed or immigrate faster than they die, so even long-term high murder rates don't reduce population. It's like a rifle vs. ants. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	octal 2007-06-05 08:03 am UTC (link)
	Oops. Didn't notice it was normalized per capita. (Reply to this) (Parent)

(Reply from suspended user)

(no subject) -

moniquemuwev, 2008-07-16 12:50 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

	diapholom 2007-06-05 08:25 am UTC (link)
	it's because george bush hates black people (& illegal immigrants) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ook 2007-06-05 10:38 am UTC (link)
	Actually, Kanye got it wrong. George Bush hates POOR people. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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pelzig, 2007-06-05 01:30 pm UTC

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kalleqitax, 2008-07-16 05:49 am UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

	thedabara 2007-06-05 11:03 am UTC (link)
	Wow. NOLA beat Detroit.....and Gary, Indiana??? (who knew?)..... (Reply to this) (Thread)

	jim_bridger 2007-06-05 07:39 pm UTC (link)
	the Katricians created a crime wave in Houston. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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pstscrpt, 2008-06-11 08:19 pm UTC

	greengalnblack 2007-06-05 12:45 pm UTC (link)
	poverty -> crime. The worse the poverty, the worse the crime. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	evilegg 2007-06-05 01:06 pm UTC (link)
	Unless no one has nuthin', and that seems to bring flies. Why must poverty -> too lazy/indifferent to pick up the friggin' trash in the yard? One of our old (dog) foster homes, they would throw the baby's used diapers out onto the porch and into the yard. And just leave them. Maybe pick them up once every a few weeks. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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andysocial, 2007-06-05 01:13 pm UTC

write this down: -

evilegg, 2007-06-05 01:33 pm UTC

Re: write this down: -

andysocial, 2007-06-05 08:14 pm UTC

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lovemarigold, 2007-06-05 03:26 pm UTC

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phanatic, 2007-06-05 01:18 pm UTC

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ikilled007, 2007-06-05 02:49 pm UTC

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downtym, 2007-06-05 03:13 pm UTC

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boffo, 2007-06-05 05:05 pm UTC

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downtym, 2007-06-05 05:30 pm UTC

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overgrownpath, 2007-06-05 05:28 pm UTC

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downtym, 2007-06-05 05:32 pm UTC

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ikilled007, 2007-06-05 06:14 pm UTC

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downtym, 2007-06-05 10:03 pm UTC

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ikilled007, 2007-06-05 10:08 pm UTC

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downtym, 2007-06-06 04:50 pm UTC

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downtym, 2007-06-06 06:31 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

sainteelyse
2007-06-05 12:48 pm UTC (link)

oddly, what i find the most odd is that richmond virginia is on the list. who the hell does diddly in richmond. though i did live there and my house was broken into and other assorted things that i don't talk about at 4:30 am.

and ya know what, i'd still choose to live here (new orleans) than anywhere else on the list or in the country. as shown by my recent move back here leaving austin texas.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	phanatic 2007-06-05 01:19 pm UTC (link)
	Before Operation Exile started up, Richmond was the handgun murder capital of the world. (Reply to this) (Parent)

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antisocialite, 2007-06-05 03:01 pm UTC

evelynne
2007-06-05 01:15 pm UTC (link)

I don't think you can compare NO to Oakland. New Orleans is a unique case since half its population disappeared overnight. No_Brakes23 is right -- the rate looks so much worse because so many law-abiding people didn't return to New Orleans after Katrina. The people most likely to be committing murders are also among the people most likely to have stayed in NO instead of leaving. Going by the footnote, both rates represent 162 murders in 2006 (162 / 223,000 = 72.6 per 100,000 and 162/255,137 = 63.5 per 100,000). If just 100,000 additional non-murderous people had come back to the city by March 2007, the rate would become 162 / 355,137 = 45.6 per 100K. (Pre-Katrina population was almost half a million.)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	evilegg 2007-06-05 10:15 pm UTC (link)
	Are you saying we should BOMB THE CITY NOW? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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evelynne, 2007-06-05 11:13 pm UTC

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evilegg, 2007-06-05 11:19 pm UTC

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evelynne, 2007-06-05 11:31 pm UTC

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entheos93, 2007-06-07 09:37 am UTC

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evelynne, 2007-06-07 12:49 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

thesmilingbandi
2007-06-05 02:17 pm UTC (link)

Another thing to consider is this. How much has the infrastructure of the city been rebuilt so far? Are the police operating at the same efficiency (let's not even discuss the corruption at this point) as it was pre-Katrina? How much of the destroyed parts of the city are still un-repaired and a good hiding ground for a criminal? Unfortunately, people are pretty much opportunistic and will prey on the lack of a completely rebuilt legal system. Drug runners will jump upon that hoping that they can smuggle in more goods with less risk.

Combine that with the overall reduction of population and you can see why the figures spike. I used to live outside of Odessa, Texas and back in the 80's that happened to be the murder capitol for a couple of years. The situation there was strange as it was an oil town which was booming early 80's, then mid 80's the oil industry took a major downturn. All these people who had moved there just to work oil were now unemployed. They went out drinking a lot and bar fights led to shooting which led to a rise in murder rate.

Perhaps that's what's happening here. Murder rates always seem to skyrocket in cities which have fallen on hard times. Hard times breeds misery which breeds unrest which leads to violence and eventually to murder.

~Loren Sides

(Reply to this) (Thread)

(Reply from suspended user)

	eternity_4_life 2007-06-05 02:22 pm UTC (link)
	they didn't list NYC in the top 10? WHOA. can i re-post this graph? it's rather disturbing... (Reply to this) (Thread)

	octal 2007-06-06 09:42 am UTC (link)
	NYC has been incredibly safe for a long time. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(no subject) -

eternity_4_life, 2007-06-06 01:45 pm UTC

(Reply from suspended user)

	Top 10 polyanarch 2007-06-05 02:38 pm UTC (link)
	Damn, shitcago didn't even make the list. It can't be THAT far behind. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Top 10 lovemarigold 2007-06-05 03:30 pm UTC (link)
	it's # of murders per 100,000 people...so chi-town may have lots of killings, but having lots and lots of people overall changes the statistic. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Top 10 -

polyanarch, 2007-06-05 03:35 pm UTC

	popejeremy 2007-06-05 03:58 pm UTC (link)
	Millions of personal financial disasters combined with the summertime heat. It's enough to make a dude wanna shoot somebody. (Reply to this)

	fitzjustice 2007-06-05 04:38 pm UTC (link)
	increased zombie production? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	sageautumn 2007-06-05 05:01 pm UTC (link)
	I'm pretty sure that a zombie can't be charged with murder. Much less sure on the "Why not?" (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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fitzjustice, 2007-06-05 05:06 pm UTC

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sageautumn, 2007-06-05 05:09 pm UTC

(no subject) -

fitzjustice, 2007-06-05 05:13 pm UTC

	f0xghost 2007-06-05 05:36 pm UTC (link)
	murder rates are def. up in oakland since 2006. (Reply to this)

	driftingapart 2007-06-05 06:29 pm UTC (link)
	I find that graph to be interesting. What makes Oakland, Ca so dangerous? I've never been there but I'd like to hear some stuff about it.. if you know anything. (Reply to this) (Thread)

miss_mellie_b
2007-06-06 12:12 am UTC (link)

Oakland has:
gangs
drugs
guns
poverty
illiteracy
ignorance
idiots
more rental housing than owned housing in poorer areas
a "life is cheap mentality" by most of the young people (it happens when there is always a funeral)
too many liquor stores

Oakland does not have:
enough cops
a decent school system
parental responsibility for their children and their children's actions
enough responsible residents

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(no subject) -

entheos93, 2007-06-07 09:40 am UTC

	mesawyou 2007-06-05 06:35 pm UTC (link)
	It's the HEAT! the HEAT!! (Reply to this)

	varin 2007-06-05 10:37 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, ummm, that's comforting seeing as I live about 15 minutes from Gary. :o (Reply to this)

	maradeath 2007-06-06 12:04 am UTC (link)
	I am not surprised that my city of Oakland made this list. I will say thought that the media does a great job of smearing shit on the face of Oakland as a city. We are also not yet near the rate we where going in the mid-90's. This is the beauty of $$ pushing out live long residents, and driving poverty forward:( (Reply to this)

messofme
2007-06-06 12:22 am UTC (link)

also, huge influx of 'workers' to the area. these people are just around for the money. dont care about the city theyre in whatsoever. dont establish bank accounts, rarely get state ID (although if you work in that state youre supposed to have state ID in most states at least). they put a roof on, head to the bank and pay $5 to cash their check. walk around w cash and party. sometimes the party's not too happy.... random observations from florida. then top all that off w lack of law enforcement, and of course the money NEVER goes where it really belongs in america....(does it anywhere??)

(Reply to this)

	otaku1 2007-06-06 03:12 am UTC (link)
	new orleans: democratic mayor gary: democratic mayor detroit: democratic mayor flint: hard to find, but i believe he's a democratic mayor birmingham: democratic mayor baltimore: democratic mayor richmond, ca: green party mayor (uh, can we say democratic?) richmond, va: independent mayor newark: democratic mayor oakland: democratic mayor interesting! (Reply to this) (Thread)

	otaku1 2007-06-06 03:13 am UTC (link)
	richmond, virginia's mayor is actually traditionally democratic, making him more D than I (Reply to this) (Parent)

_corvidae_
2007-06-06 04:53 am UTC (link)

According to the news I've been reading about it, it's a simple case of a catch and release prison system. Weak cases combined with full prisons and lenient judges. It adds up to a lot of killers that get away with it because no one turns them in, the cops can't make a decent case in court, or the judge doesn't keep them in jail.

Add in your usual cases of corrupt/incompatent cops and a natural disaster, you've got a mix for a really bad day.

(Reply to this)

	missylaneous 2007-06-07 04:58 am UTC (link)
	If it makes you feel any better.. at least you don't have double the murder rate of Gary, Indiana (but you did push them out of the #1 spot..I think they've held that one for a while) Richmond, CA is far worse than Oakland. (even though richmond and oakland are neighbors) (Reply to this)

Just a bit..

nolaluvah
2007-06-12 07:37 pm UTC (link)

I have worked in mental health so I don't want to sound like I believe all mentally-ill people are dangerous. I too have received most of my info from NPR. Poverty = increase crime rate is what is being touted. I think a certain percentage of the problem, though, may have to do with the lack of mental health services and medical care.

One probation officer once told me that violent crime increased tremendously with drug use. Drug use is frequently a form of self-medication for mental illness.

Proper healthcare is obviously needed. Violence may be one of the consequences of the lack of proper healthcare.

(Reply to this)

	top 10 murderous cities shiva_maxwell 2007-06-29 05:33 am UTC (link)
	i mean i live near hellhole no 8 (richmond va) there's a reason why i say AVOID richmond va AT ALL COST unless you want to die a quick & painfull death (Reply to this)

	ttrtt 2007-09-02 02:35 pm UTC (link)
	delete (Reply to this)

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