interdictor ([info]interdictor) wrote,
@ 2007-02-12 11:15:00
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President of Czech Republic Calls Man-Made Global Warming a 'Myth' - Questions Gore's Sanity
Is "Global Warming" real science or a political agenda? I agree with the Csech President:
Czech president Vaclav Klaus has criticized the UN panel on global warming, claiming that it was a political authority without any scientific basis.

In an interview with "Hospodárské noviny", a Czech economics daily, Klaus answered a few questions:

Q: IPCC has released its report and you say that the global warming is a false myth. How did you get this idea, Mr President?•

A: It's not my idea. Global warming is a false myth and every serious person and scientist says so. It is not fair to refer to the U.N. panel. IPCC is not a scientific institution: it's a political body, a sort of non-government organization of green flavor. It's neither a forum of neutral scientists nor a balanced group of scientists. These people are politicized scientists who arrive there with a one-sided opinion and a one-sided assignment. Also, it's an undignified slapstick that people don't wait for the full report in May 2007 but instead respond, in such a serious way, to the summary for policymakers where all the "but's" are scratched, removed, and replaced by oversimplified theses.• This is clearly such an incredible failure of so many people, from journalists to politicians. If the European Commission is instantly going to buy such a trick, we have another very good reason to think that the countries themselves, not the Commission, should be deciding about similar issues.•

Q: How do you explain that there is no other comparably senior statesman in Europe who would advocate this viewpoint? No one else has such strong opinions...•

A: My opinions about this issue simply are strong. Other top-level politicians do not express their global warming doubts because a whip of political correctness strangles their voice.

• Q: But you're not a climate scientist. Do you have a sufficient knowledge and enough information?•

A: Environmentalism as a metaphysical ideology and as a worldview has absolutely nothing to do with natural sciences or with the climate. Sadly, it has nothing to do with social sciences either. Still, it is becoming fashionable and this fact scares me. The second part of the sentence should be: we also have lots of reports, studies, and books of climatologists whose conclusions are diametrally opposite.• Indeed, I never measure the thickness of ice in Antarctica. I really don't know how to do it and don't plan to learn it. However, as a scientifically oriented person, I know how to read science reports about these questions, for example about ice in Antarctica. I don't have to be a climate scientist myself to read them. And inside the papers I have read, the conclusions we may see in the media simply don't appear. But let me promise you something: this topic troubles me which is why I started to write an article about it last Christmas. The article expanded and became a book. In a couple of months, it will be published. One chapter out of seven will organize my opinions about the climate change.• Environmentalism and green ideology is something very different from climate science. Various findings and screams of scientists are abused by this ideology.•

Q: How do you explain that conservative media are skeptical while the left-wing media view the global warming as a done deal?•

A: It is not quite exactly divided to the left-wingers and right-wingers. Nevertheless it's obvious that environmentalism is a new incarnation of modern leftism.•

Q: If you look at all these things, even if you were right ...•

A: ...I am right...•

Q: Isn't there enough empirical evidence and facts we can see with our eyes that imply that Man is demolishing the planet and himself?•

A: It's such a nonsense that I have probably not heard a bigger nonsense yet.•

Q: Don't you believe that we're ruining our planet?•

A: I will pretend that I haven't heard you. Perhaps only Mr Al Gore may be saying something along these lines: a sane person can't. I don't see any ruining of the planet, I have never seen it, and I don't think that a reasonable and serious person could say such a thing. Look: you represent the economic media so I expect a certain economical erudition from you. My book will answer these questions. For example, we know that there exists a huge correlation between the care we give to the environment on one side and the wealth and technological prowess on the other side. It's clear that the poorer the society is, the more brutally it behaves with respect to Nature, and vice versa.• It's also true that there exist social systems that are damaging Nature - by eliminating private ownership and similar things - much more than the freer societies. These tendencies become important in the long run. They unambiguously imply that today, on February 8th, 2007, Nature is protected uncomparably more than on February 8th ten years ago or fifty years ago or one hundred years ago.• That's why I ask: how can you pronounce the sentence you said? Perhaps if you're unconscious? Or did you mean it as a provocation only? And maybe I am just too naive and I allowed you to provoke me to give you all these answers, am I not? It is more likely that you actually believe what you say. Well, it makes a lot of sense, Prof Klaus. Other parts of the interview were dedicated to the Organization of European States (and Jo Leinen), the Czech civil cold war that has already ended, the radar for the U.S. missile defense, and his relations with the current Czech government. Show postings on this blog that contain the word Klaus.

[English translation from Harvard Professor Lubos Motl]


Thoughts?


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[info]commonreader
2007-02-12 04:25 pm UTC (link)
::stands up, cheers::

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[info]geordie
2007-02-12 04:26 pm UTC (link)
There's a reasonable chance that there'll be a significant sea level rise in my lifetime, I look forward to hearing from these people at that time. Gore chose a very good title, An Inconvenient Truth, people just don't want to believe it could be true because the result would be disastrous for many major cities.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]unclebill35, 2007-02-12 05:08 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]geordie, 2007-02-12 05:18 pm UTC

[info]cluebyfour
2007-02-12 04:26 pm UTC (link)
Global warming is a false myth and every serious person and scientist says so.

I stopped reading after that line.

Dude, c'mon. You can't possibly fall in step with ridiculous statements like this. Such blatant denial and ignorance is on par with the intelligent design theorists.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 06:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cluebyfour, 2007-02-12 06:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 07:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cluebyfour, 2007-02-12 07:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 07:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nausved, 2007-02-12 10:47 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 11:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nausved, 2007-02-13 12:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-13 02:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nausved, 2007-02-13 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nausved, 2007-02-13 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bestbuddyali, 2007-02-12 11:43 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nausved, 2007-02-13 01:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bestbuddyali, 2007-02-13 01:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-13 12:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]nausved, 2007-02-13 12:59 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcfnord, 2007-02-13 05:07 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-13 04:38 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcfnord, 2007-02-13 04:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]crufix, 2007-02-13 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-13 08:31 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcfnord, 2007-02-13 09:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-13 09:49 pm UTC
SUNSPOTS ON MY SHOULDERS MAKE ME HAPPY - [info]mcfnord, 2007-02-13 10:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcfnord, 2007-02-13 05:04 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]other, 2007-02-13 02:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]malathion, 2007-06-10 07:22 am UTC

[info]popejeremy
2007-02-12 04:27 pm UTC (link)
The president of Czech Republic is clearly not a respected expert in scientific matters.

There are zero articles in any respected, peer-reviewed scientific journal which claim that global warming isn't real.

Who are we going to trust when it comes to science? The scientists, or the bureaucrats in eastern Europe?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]unknown_lamer, 2007-02-12 05:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-12 05:53 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]mcfnord, 2007-02-13 05:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]jscro, 2007-02-12 06:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]downtym, 2007-02-12 06:09 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nausved, 2007-02-12 10:59 pm UTC

[info]downtym
2007-02-12 04:37 pm UTC (link)
I'd like to see his book and its references - if he bothers to cite them. I'm inclined to believe that like most laymen he thinks he has an understanding of the science, but has no idea what the hell he's talking about.

Also, this is a ridiculous argument:

For example, we know that there exists a huge correlation between the care we give to the environment on one side and the wealth and technological prowess on the other side. It's clear that the poorer the society is, the more brutally it behaves with respect to Nature, and vice versa.• It's also true that there exist social systems that are damaging Nature - by eliminating private ownership and similar things - much more than the freer societies. These tendencies become important in the long run. They unambiguously imply that today, on February 8th, 2007, Nature is protected uncomparably more than on February 8th ten years ago or fifty years ago or one hundred years ago.

Counter argument:

The more wealthy and technologically advanced a civilization, the greater its technological waste. These wastes contain much more volatile and damaging chemicals or materials then those wastes which could be produced by a less wealthy or technologically advanced civilization. Also, technological advances come at the cost of an increased energy debt making the society increasingly inefficient - and energy hungry. If nothing else, the environmental damage of a few thousand computer motherboards left out in a field for 50 years would make a fairly compelling that increased technological advancement does not necessitate environmental responsibility or "Green-ness".

Also, [i]t's also true that there exist social systems that are damaging Nature - by eliminating private ownership and similar things - much more than the freer societies sounds like some spurious bullshit trumpeted and paraded around by those afraid of their own past.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 06:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]downtym, 2007-02-12 08:11 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 08:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]downtym, 2007-02-12 10:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]darksheik, 2007-02-12 09:06 pm UTC
Woah
[info]christianlady
2007-02-12 04:40 pm UTC (link)
Sounds a little bit like Rush Limbaugh.

I do not know who to trust, but I will say I am waiting to see a bit more on this global warming thing. I have actually heard people say, "well cooling even proves global warming" when someone says that they see record low temps in some areas. How can you argue with that? If it's warm, it's global warming, if it's cold, it's global warming.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Woah - [info]marrael, 2007-02-12 04:48 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 06:33 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marrael, 2007-02-12 06:52 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-12 04:52 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 05:10 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-12 05:15 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 05:18 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 06:35 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 07:05 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 07:25 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 07:32 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 07:58 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 08:17 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 09:04 pm UTC
Re: Woah - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 10:47 pm UTC
I love good discussions.... - [info]montieth, 2007-02-13 12:11 am UTC

[info]marrael
2007-02-12 04:41 pm UTC (link)
I will pretend that I haven't heard you. Perhaps only Mr Al Gore may be saying something along these lines: a sane person can't. I don't see any ruining of the planet, I have never seen it, and I don't think that a reasonable and serious person could say such a thing.

Pretense, willful ignorance, denialism, ad hominen attack, arguing over semantics - all in 3 sentences! GOP sheep: watch and learn!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 06:36 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]marrael, 2007-02-12 06:44 pm UTC

[info]boutell
2007-02-12 04:42 pm UTC (link)
> Global warming is a false myth and every serious person
> and scientist says so.

That's so far over the top, I'm surprised you want to associate yourself with it. There are real scientists who disagree with the consensus on global warming, yes, okay. But "every serious person and scientist" doesn't think global warming is a myth. It's both insulting and obviously false, I can't take the rest of the piece seriously.

Will there be surprises, things that don't follow the predictions exactly? Are there things we don't completely understand about the climate? Obviously. We've never run this "experiment" before.

But is it likely that massive changes in the CO2 level of the atmosphere will have an impact on the climate? Of course it is.

"You admit your understanding is imperfect, therefore you are completely wrong" is the argument creationists employ against evolution. It's just as ridiculous here.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 05:17 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]unknown_lamer, 2007-02-12 05:49 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 06:10 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 06:40 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 06:51 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 07:05 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 07:12 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 07:44 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 08:07 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 08:16 pm UTC

[info]commonreader
2007-02-12 04:44 pm UTC (link)
::reads comments, sits down, cries::

(Reply to this)


[info]conservative67
2007-02-12 04:50 pm UTC (link)
Treeboy Gore is a batshit crazy moonbat

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]mcfnord, 2007-02-13 04:44 am UTC

[info]andrewfeland
2007-02-12 04:58 pm UTC (link)
What are you going to do for an encore? Go after all of these idiots who believe in the germ theory of disease?

Let's see...on the one hand, I've got the opinion of the world's leading climatologists, a fellow my wife used to work for at Harvard. He says global warming is real--he's a tenured professor in an endowed position, so he has absolutely nothing to gain from saying this. He is joined by hundreds, if not thousands, of other scientists who just don't stand to gain a lot from this stance. Damned dirty hippy scientists, they must just all hate free-market economics, huh?

On the other, I've got some questionable science put forth by a few fly-by-night academics who have been directly funded by large petroleum companies saying that global warming is a myth. They stand to lose billions of dollars if people stop using oil. Sure, let's accept the report without considering the source. That's the ticket.

Oh, and now we have the president of Czechoslovakia.

Great bunch of qualified sources, there.

Hey, how about molecular theory? We could go after that next. You can't see 'em, unless you're using one of those government-funded 'lectron microscopes, so clearly molecules are just a myth, right? A giant conspiracy, designed to suck money into research that we could be pouring into the military? People who believe in molecules hate America!


Ooh, ooh, I know--we can go after combustion next! Just because the phlogiston theory was disproved in the 1700's doesn't make it false!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-12 05:02 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]andrewfeland, 2007-02-12 05:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-12 05:25 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 05:30 pm UTC

[info]malada
2007-02-12 05:21 pm UTC (link)
FACT: Glaciers worldwide are melting, retreating and disappearing...

FACT: C02 levels in the atmosphere (as recorded in the ice cores) are the highest between interglacial periods - higher by one third...

FACT: C02 *is* a greenhouse gas. The only possible source for so much continuous C02 - is us.

FACT: the Artic ice cap is getting smaller every year

FACT: the Greenland ice sheet is sliding faster into the ocean due to melt water

Now for the computer simulation - as the global temperature changes, it plays hob with earth's climate patterns. Local weather changes - there may be places where it gets colder, or wetter, or stormier. Outside, I'm looking at the mildest winter in this area in decades while 150 miles north, they're having record breaking snowfall.

Final comment: The man is in denial - and so is anyone else who doesn't see that the earth's climate is changing and we're the most likely source.

-m

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 05:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-12 05:32 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 05:42 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shekkara, 2007-02-12 05:48 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]shekkara, 2007-02-12 05:49 pm UTC
All points in the future - [info]vokzal, 2007-02-21 04:15 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 06:47 pm UTC
RE: Weather Models/Sure Science - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 07:02 pm UTC
Re: Weather Models/Sure Science - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-12 09:34 pm UTC
Re: Weather Models/Sure Science - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 10:37 pm UTC
Re: Weather Models/Sure Science - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-12 10:57 pm UTC
Re: Weather Models/Sure Science - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 11:23 pm UTC
Re: Weather Models/Sure Science - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 11:27 pm UTC
Re: Weather Models/Sure Science - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-13 01:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]unix_jedi, 2007-02-12 09:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nausved, 2007-02-12 11:21 pm UTC

[info]pinkfu
2007-02-12 06:08 pm UTC (link)
I don't much care anymore. Give it a couple of years of no one doing anything (except bitching back and forth) and we'll know who was right, amirite?

What the hell do I care? I don't have kids and I don't even like them. Fuck the future, let 'em rot. :)

(Reply to this)


[info]phanatic
2007-02-12 06:17 pm UTC (link)
I think you should post my anti-9/11-conspiracy photos.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 06:19 pm UTC

[info]cantstoptharock
2007-02-12 06:30 pm UTC (link)
What I dont' understand about people who are skeptical about climate change - ok, be skeptical of the hype. Debate whather or not the climate is going to change, debate whether or not it's natural, debate wheather or not it's a catastrophe.

What I don't understand about the people who are "against" it is that they seem to use their doubt as a reason to not take action on ideas and concepts that we KNOW are good - such as cutting down on pollution, chemicals in the air, and investigate alternative fuel sources.

We know we are going to run out of oil, we know it's only going to get more expensive over time, and we know that when we burn oil, it puts pollutants in the air that make people and eco systems sick. We know it is more cost effective in many ways to put funding towards things such as hybrid cars and fuel effective vehicles, we know that it is BAD when big companies dump toxins into the environment.

What I would like to see is someone who doesn't belive the hype and the fear mongering about climate change specifically, but who has the courage, the honor and the effing intelligence to stand up and say, "even though I don't believe what these people are saying will happen, I KNOW that their causes are important and just. Here is what I am doing.... "

Why use your disbelief in climate change as a reason to guzzle oil and pollute? I just don't get it.

It's like saying you don't believe in the bogey man so you aren't going to lock your door at night. Sometimes there is more than one reason to take action on things that are important.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 06:45 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]cantstoptharock, 2007-02-12 06:52 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 06:54 pm UTC
An excellent point. - [info]squidb0i, 2007-02-12 07:10 pm UTC
Re: An excellent point. - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 07:16 pm UTC
Re: An excellent point. - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 07:38 pm UTC
Re: An excellent point. - [info]montieth, 2007-02-12 07:24 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-12 09:29 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-12 11:35 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]popejeremy, 2007-02-13 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]strandsofchaos, 2007-02-13 03:26 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]girl_tm, 2007-02-13 11:27 pm UTC
Ludicrous.
[info]squidb0i
2007-02-12 07:00 pm UTC (link)
He makes no points, just half baked assertions with no basis in fact.
But that's par for course from every climate change disputer I've run into.

(Reply to this)


[info]twoeleven
2007-02-12 07:37 pm UTC (link)
cool, now i know the czech for "la-la-la! i can't hear you!"

(Reply to this)


[info]faustnbulbous
2007-02-12 07:41 pm UTC (link)
Bring back Vaclav Havel.

(Reply to this)


[info]nausved
2007-02-12 10:03 pm UTC (link)
I am an ecology major. I have studied climate and the effects of temperature on living organisms closely. I attend weekly seminars from scientists around the world, roughly 50% of whom do work regarding climate.

"Global warming is a false myth and every serious person and scientist says so."

This person clearly does not know any scientists--or if he has, he has not discussed this particular subject with them. Global warming is most certainly occurring. It has been extensively documented over many years.

Either this man is very ignorant and ill-informed, or he is another scheming politician trying to appeal to the uneducated masses.

I highly advise doing a little background research on this so-called "myth".

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]unix_jedi, 2007-02-12 10:19 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]nausved, 2007-02-12 11:40 pm UTC

[info]jaenanda
2007-02-12 10:27 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad to hear some dissenting opinions to the global warming theory. They fuel discussion, and open discussion is something desperately needed in the face of conflicting scientific data. He's right in his insistence that the UN panel was, is, and will continue to be, more than marginally politically motivated.

I do need to voice a serious objection to his repeated insistence that no rational or eduicated person can believe in global warming, etc. It's a cheap trick to lend instant credibility to what he's saying in a person's subconscious before they even really think about what he's saying. In fact, statements like that are doing the exact same thing he accuses the media of doing: manipulating people's opinions before they can think for themselves. So no cookie for him there.

Personally, I do believe that the planet is currently undergoing a massive climate change. There's enough data, at least, to support that. And it's obvious to me that the planet should be changing: our wold is not static. We constantly exist within a state of change. There have been ice ages before, there have been periods of melting before. All of this is supported by long-standing geological evidence. And I don't believe it's going too far out on a limb to suggest that human activity in the form of greenhouse gasses are exacerbating an existing condition. I don't think the situation is nearly as bad as the media screams at us, but I don't believe it's responsible to burry our heads in the sand and say that the change isn't happening, and that there's nothing we can do to slow it's progress.

Those are just my thoughts, since you asked for them.

(Reply to this)

Bravo
[info]polyanarch
2007-02-12 11:47 pm UTC (link)
I don't think humans are causing any significant changes to the natural ebb and flow of climate.
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